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	<title>Comments on: CodeGear abandons .NET Windows Forms?</title>
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	<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html</link>
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		<title>By: Nick Hodges</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26571</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Hodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26571</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;That said, this hasn’t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.&quot;&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/archive/2007/07/16.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What&#039;s not in the Delphi Roadmap&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="That said, this hasn’t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.">
<p><a href="http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/archive/2007/07/16.aspx" rel="nofollow">What&#8217;s not in the Delphi Roadmap</a></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: David I</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26539</link>
		<dc:creator>David I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26539</guid>
		<description>&gt; Tim says: Agreed, but are there really many more developers using VCL.NET for GUI work? As I mentioned, the main issue is with 3rd party components.


There are loads of VCL components that work just fine for native and managed code.  In many cases, you just recompile your components and applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Tim says: Agreed, but are there really many more developers using VCL.NET for GUI work? As I mentioned, the main issue is with 3rd party components.</p>
<p>There are loads of VCL components that work just fine for native and managed code.  In many cases, you just recompile your components and applications.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David I</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26538</link>
		<dc:creator>David I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26538</guid>
		<description>&gt; Tim said: That said, this hasn’t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.


We&#039;ve been telling all developers that we are focused on Delphi and VCL.  We held a series of 8 online chats with developers and put the replays up (including the Q&amp;A sections) on our developer network site.  I will see about putting up a &quot;what&#039;s not in the roadmap&quot; section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Tim said: That said, this hasn’t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been telling all developers that we are focused on Delphi and VCL.  We held a series of 8 online chats with developers and put the replays up (including the Q&amp;A sections) on our developer network site.  I will see about putting up a &#8220;what&#8217;s not in the roadmap&#8221; section.</p>
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		<title>By: David I</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26537</link>
		<dc:creator>David I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26537</guid>
		<description>&gt; Tim: Someone considering a Delphi .NET project may say, “look what happened to winform support” and have less confidence in the product.

We have been consistent with VCL support from the beginning.  We are continuing to move VCL forward on native and managed code.  VCL is the road to 64-bit and other places.  Delphi+VCL is the power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Tim: Someone considering a Delphi .NET project may say, “look what happened to winform support” and have less confidence in the product.</p>
<p>We have been consistent with VCL support from the beginning.  We are continuing to move VCL forward on native and managed code.  VCL is the road to 64-bit and other places.  Delphi+VCL is the power.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26271</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26271</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It would appear that Microsoft are moving away from it too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
True, but even Microsoft recommends not to use WPF for line of business apps in .NET 2.0, which is what Highlander targets. Surely it would not have been that hard for Codegear to maintain its existing winform designer in Highlander? But the other issue is about confidence. Someone considering a Delphi .NET project may say, &quot;look what happened to winform support&quot; and have less confidence in the product.

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It would appear that Microsoft are moving away from it too.</p></blockquote>
<p>True, but even Microsoft recommends not to use WPF for line of business apps in .NET 2.0, which is what Highlander targets. Surely it would not have been that hard for Codegear to maintain its existing winform designer in Highlander? But the other issue is about confidence. Someone considering a Delphi .NET project may say, &#8220;look what happened to winform support&#8221; and have less confidence in the product.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26270</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26270</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Delphi developers care about the language and the framework, VCL&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Thanks for the comment, David. In the end though, Delphi developers just want to get their work done. 

Most people accept, I think, that Codegear has limited resources and needs to focus. Perhaps discarding winforms makes sense. That said, this hasn&#039;t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Delphi developers care about the language and the framework, VCL</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for the comment, David. In the end though, Delphi developers just want to get their work done. </p>
<p>Most people accept, I think, that Codegear has limited resources and needs to focus. Perhaps discarding winforms makes sense. That said, this hasn&#8217;t been communicated well. Rather than simply waiting for us to spot that it was missing from the roadmap, it would have been better to be upfront about the decision.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26269</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26269</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yes, all three of them&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Agreed, but are there really many more developers using VCL.NET for GUI work? As I mentioned, the main issue is with 3rd party components.

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yes, all three of them</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed, but are there really many more developers using VCL.NET for GUI work? As I mentioned, the main issue is with 3rd party components.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: David I</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26177</link>
		<dc:creator>David I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26177</guid>
		<description>Delphi developers care about the language and the framework, VCL.  Continuing to support the VCL on native and managed code gives Delphi developers the unique/RAD advantage.  Continuing our support of VCL on native code (win32), managed code (.Net) and (according to our roadmap) extending VCL to unicode and Win64 in the future gives Delphi developers an outstanding advantage over just using Windows API or the .NET FCL (which continues to change over time).

Delphi developers know what they have with VCL and the thousands of VCL components that are available to be used on Windows and .NET.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delphi developers care about the language and the framework, VCL.  Continuing to support the VCL on native and managed code gives Delphi developers the unique/RAD advantage.  Continuing our support of VCL on native code (win32), managed code (.Net) and (according to our roadmap) extending VCL to unicode and Win64 in the future gives Delphi developers an outstanding advantage over just using Windows API or the .NET FCL (which continues to change over time).</p>
<p>Delphi developers know what they have with VCL and the thousands of VCL components that are available to be used on Windows and .NET.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Sweby</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26170</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Sweby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26170</guid>
		<description>Tim,

I &lt;a href=&quot;http://delphidisciple.blogspot.com/2007/06/roadmap-chat-with-david-i.html&quot; title=&quot;The Delphi Disciple&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;thought the same&lt;/a&gt; when I first heard this (as did most other Delphi users from reading the newsgroups) but upon further reading and listening, it became clear(er).

It would appear that Microsoft are moving away from it too. They aren&#039;t dropping it but they&#039;re saying that it will no longer evolve. WPF is certainly being billed as the new WinForms (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.msdn.com/mharsh/archive/2004/09/20/231888.aspx&quot; title=&quot;Is Windows Forms dead?&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for example).

I admit I think it&#039;s a concern for those who have WinForm applications but once .NET 3.0/3.5 is out, then WPF will be pushed forward and WinForms will be, effectively legacy.

For me I think they might have done well to just leave it alone for those who need to migrate (again) but we don&#039;t appear to have had a definitive answer from CodeGear as to why they have taken such a controversial decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>I <a href="http://delphidisciple.blogspot.com/2007/06/roadmap-chat-with-david-i.html" title="The Delphi Disciple" rel="nofollow">thought the same</a> when I first heard this (as did most other Delphi users from reading the newsgroups) but upon further reading and listening, it became clear(er).</p>
<p>It would appear that Microsoft are moving away from it too. They aren&#8217;t dropping it but they&#8217;re saying that it will no longer evolve. WPF is certainly being billed as the new WinForms (see <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/mharsh/archive/2004/09/20/231888.aspx" title="Is Windows Forms dead?" rel="nofollow">here</a> for example).</p>
<p>I admit I think it&#8217;s a concern for those who have WinForm applications but once .NET 3.0/3.5 is out, then WPF will be pushed forward and WinForms will be, effectively legacy.</p>
<p>For me I think they might have done well to just leave it alone for those who need to migrate (again) but we don&#8217;t appear to have had a definitive answer from CodeGear as to why they have taken such a controversial decision.</p>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://www.itwriting.com/blog/275-codegear-abandons-net-windows-forms.html/comment-page-1#comment-26165</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=275#comment-26165</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;anyone who invested in Delphi Windows Forms development has been left stranded&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, all three of them...  Anyhow, CodeGear&#039;s priorities with respect to Delphi (as set out on the recent-ish roadmap) seem about right to me, given their resources.  The shame is that the years between D7 and D2006 cannot be relived...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>anyone who invested in Delphi Windows Forms development has been left stranded</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, all three of them&#8230;  Anyhow, CodeGear&#8217;s priorities with respect to Delphi (as set out on the recent-ish roadmap) seem about right to me, given their resources.  The shame is that the years between D7 and D2006 cannot be relived&#8230;</p>
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