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May 10, 2005

Intel steals my memory

Posted 1906 days ago on May 10, 2005

The other day I put together a new Intel EM64T system for testing 64-bit Windows and Linux. The motherboard is an Intel D915PBL, supposedly with full EM64T compatibility.

Why "supposedly"? Well, everything runs fine just as I expected it would, except that I installed 4GB and I'm only getting the use of 3GB. Sounds like a 32-bit problem, doesn't it? The problem appears to be that this chipset reserves approximately 1GB at the top of the 4GB address space for system functions - things like BIOS firmware, digital media interface, PCI Express ports, and memory-mapped I/O. Of these, the PCI Express element is by far the biggest, and might vary according to how much RAM is on your graphics card. The result is that when you boot, the board declares:

Memory consumed by system resources: 1024MB

Let me put this another way. This memory is not really being "consumed". It is just that the board can't really address it, as its address locations are already used to point to other things.

This is not a limitation of the processor, which can address vast amounts of RAM; and it is nothing to do with any operating system. Intel is capable of making boards which don't suffer this problem, and does so for the Xeon. I consider it a bug. After all, why would anyone want an EM64T CPU, if not to address more RAM? Why are there slots for 4GB, if the memory can't all be used? Why does the user-friendly installation manual not mention that you might as well save your money and only install 3GB?

Of course 3GB is still a lot, and the price difference between a pair of 512MB sticks and a pair of 1GB sticks is not vast. I still reckon it's poor. Should have gone with AMD after all...

Postscript: I have to add that there are AMD motherboards that suffer from this same problem. So it is not really an AMD vs Intel issue. I am still researching this; if anyone has a clear explanation of why this limit exists and how the high-end boards get round it please let me know or comment here. Losing 25% of your RAM is careless to say the least and this problem deserves to be more prominent; equally, now that 64-bit is hitting the mainstream we need mass-market boards that can accept more RAM.

Postscript 2: I initiated a lengthy discussion of this issue on some of the hardware newsgroups. The conclusion seems to be that some of the address space between 3GB and 4GB will always be reserved for non-memory functions on a PC. This part of the installed RAM might be lost even if you have a board that supports much more - say 24GB. However, a well-designed board can remap the memory, so that all the installed RAM can be used. It appears that the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe is an example, in the AMD world. The BIOS offers a "DRAM Over 4G remapping function". So it can be done.

One further correction. The Intel D915PBL printed guide does actually make reference to this problem. However, I missed it for two reasons. First, it is not mentioned in the section on "Installing and removing memory", which is one part of a board manual I always tend to read as it gives the DIMM configuration options. Second, where it is noted (eg. in the list of features), it doesn't indicate the scale of the issue. To be specific, it says "...this may result in less than 4GB of memory being available to the operating system." Even if you read this warning, I doubt you will expect a full 1GB to be lost.

If you run into this problem, please complain to the board vendor. As 64-bit installations become more common, I expect most boards will in future be designed to workaround this issue.



Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1892 days ago by Steev Wilcox • • • Reply

Hiya Tim. We had this problem with an AMD64 platform we bought at the beginning of 2004, and we had hoped the motherboard vendors would have solved it by now. No such luck.

The Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe uses the nForce 4 chipset, and I have a hunch that boards based on the various nForce 4 flavours don't have this problem - see for example http://www.msicomputer.co.uk/Products.aspx?product_id=703538&cat_id=77
(nForce 4) which says it supports 4GB, but http://www.msicomputer.co.uk/Products.aspx?product_id=703505&cat_id=77
(nForce 3) where they've explicitly put in a warning about using 4GB. For some reason, MSI's UK site gives this information, but their global site does not. Another slight irritation is this quote from an MSI Tech Support guy: "Sorry, but all boards does have this limitation with standard desktop boards but not a problem in server platform, thanks." (email to me, 24/may/05). So I'm far from certain that the nForce 4 chipset really does solve this issue.

If I find anything useful out, I'll post back here. For now, we're going to give up and acept that we're going to lose 300MB.

Cheers, Steev

syncronisation problem

Posted 1850 days ago by Flo • • • Reply

i realy want to know about a problem of syncronisation using monitors or semaphors. It is about a teacher and some students. Pls send me a mail about the solution

Re: Intel steals my memory - 2006/2007 Intel D925XCV - the same

Posted 1006 days ago by Matthias • • • Reply

2006: Intel D925XCV consumes 1408MB. After upgrading BIOS to the latest version it consumes ONLY 896MB form 4GB for system resources.
Try to ask Intel support about it or to find this problem on Intel forum/pages - no way.
Well done - Intel - congratulations :( !
Regards Matthias

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1850 days ago by Steev Wilcox • • • Reply

Well, we've bought a MSI RS480M2-IL, and it will only give us 3.6GB when the AGP aperture is on minimum and pretty much everything else is turned off. Better than our 3.4GB last attempt.

I've phoned a guy at Asus support, who was very good, but he admitted that none of their desktop AMD or Intel boards give you the full 4GB. Apparently, it's a problem with the x86 motherboard spec, which can't be got round by motherboard manufacturers - he suggested waiting until the BTX motherboard spec comes out. The A8N-SLI can get you 3.8GB because they've otimized the memory layout, but they can't squeeze out the last 200MB.

So the Asus A8N-SLI would appear to be the best so far, but still doesn't solve the problem.

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1843 days ago by chris landauer • • • Reply

i'm having this same problem with an intel 915g chipset on one of their augsberg motherboards (which is a microatx) - it says 1152mb consumed by system resources

somewhere, i did see it mentioned that you should take out the graphics card before adding new memory (but i didn't do that - i will try that and see what happens)

more soon, cal

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1820 days ago by Anonymous • • • Reply

We've now bought an Asus A8N-SLI board (Athlon family), and you can indeed use the "DRAM over 4G mapping function" as long as you compile your linux kernel with highmem enabled. If you use the stock Fedore Core 3 kernel with this option enabled, it will crash while installing. The machine is now reporting 4,038,888K when running "top", or 3.85GB - compare this to a normal 2GB Linux machine, which reports 1.96GB, or our 8GB Opteron machine, which reports 7.74GB. The MSI board I referenced above has only 3,590,564K = 3.42GB (sorry, 1024 != 1000 problem), so Asus have a winner here. I'd recommend ditching all other motherboards and just buying Asus' A8N-SLI! Cheers, Steev

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1802 days ago by Akos Gabriel • • • Reply

How are you "enabling" highmem? On 64-bit kernels I didn't found this option at all.
Could you post your kernel config here?
What is the version of you BIOS?

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1802 days ago by Jeff Loftus • • • Reply

I have an Intel 925 board with 4GB DDR2/533 and I am seeing the same problem. BIOS indicates 896MB consumed by system resources, 3200 available :( and FWIW I don't recall any mention of this "feature" in any documentation.

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1670 days ago by Craig Smith • • • Reply

Silly to have slots for 4GB ram and only be able to use 3GB. But what the hay, will a bleeding edge mobo that gives you remapping above 3GB really preform leaps beyond? I'm happy with the 915P overall.

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1630 days ago by Anonymous • • • Reply

same problem here with a DFI LanParty UT Nforce4 Soclet939.
3.4 only even if the MB says it clearly that supports 4GB ram. TThis is the worst part, for them missleading us. Now I really have to change the MB. i'll go for Asus I think.
It sucks!
Have an AMD X2 4400+ on it but that wouldn't make a difference.

Asus A8N-SLI SE Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 1426 days ago by Keith Groves • • wwwReply

I have an A8N-SLI SE upgraded to 4Gb of memory (4 x 1Gb modules). Althought the BIOS presents (and enabes by default) "S/W DRAM Over 4G Remapping" and "H/W DRAM Over 4G Remapping", I find that it won't boot the OS (neither XP nor 32bit Vista Beta) unless both are disabled. Result being I have 2.8Gb usable rather than 4Gb

The 'help' text in the BIOS says H/W would work if my processor was revision E0 or above. And the S/W 'option help' simply says it requires the OS support it.

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 721 days ago by Gregor • • • Reply

I see the first report is dated 2005.
Leave all hope behind you. Nothing has changed in the meanwhile.

I have an Intel 915 PSY MB, bought in 2006. Guess what, yes, the same 4 GB problem, 1152 MB not in use. But to make things worse, when starting with 3 GB, 128 MB were already stolen by the system.

Not to forget about the euphemism 'consumed by system' instead of disobeyed, ignored or swallowed.
'System' ... could lead as well to a poltical discussion. There you find the same problem. And no solution either. So everything is according to the rules, what to worry about?

Gregor

Re: Intel steals my memory

Posted 659 days ago by Jiju Thomas Mathew • • wwwReply

I was googling, ircing and digging.. why our new server { spec: IBM xSeries 3400, Xeon 2.0GHz with 6G ram }, when loaded with ubuntu hardy x86_64 server { confirmed that linux-server package is installed and updated }, shows only 3.9G ram in the free, top and all other toolz. I was planning to run tomcat with the webapps on /dev/shm, but with /dev/shm only 2G, I wont be able to do so.. I was hoping it would be 3G, and I could change it to go upto 4G.

Will post any findings later here.. but it seems to be really baffling..


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